Busy times, with covid havent had a need to drive much. I did end up with an issue where during Vtec it would miss. Looking at hondata logs, it also was dropping the voltage pretty heavy during this time. through a bit of hunting, I found they drain was from the fuel pump. This car was originally a carb car and the pump was pulling form the tank. although technology has come a long way with fuel pumps, they still like to push rather than pull. so I got a new tank with the connections on the bottom and re routed the fuel lines. so the pre filter/pump/post filter were all near the bottom, then pushed the fuel up through an aluminum line before going to the rail. Low and behold, the miss issue is currently gone!
I also built a wing out of foam and fiberglass. it a littl too big IMO, but just a little, I like the width (56″) but the 18″ depth is a little too much. I still really like the look it produces even though I am sure it is slowing me down at speed.
Its been while. I have to say it i for good reasons. Last spring when I went o start driving for the season, The car started up and ran great! I am running hondata that went in without a hitch. The miss at vtec actually still there but the Datalogging pointed out where the issue was. Kinda.. First I disabled vtec in order to get the tuning started. the miss was still there. So it isnt a vtec issue but an RPM issue. I started looking at injector dead times. I altered them a little and the miss went away.
I dont remember wher eI left this blog as far as the overheating issue, but that has been soled as well be re-routing how the cooling system works. I have to manually trigger the cooling fan if I sit in traffic because I havent rewired that circuit from hondata yet. But it sits about 178-184 99.9999% of the time. I manually hit the fan in the upper 180’s.
The car isnt stupid fast, but it is pretty quick. I am running the LS transmission so the gearing isnt really for crazy fast anyway. but getting over 37 MPG average driving to work. 75% freeway. Here is a soft 1-3rd pull
I had another issue with the Fuel pump stopping. Looks like I didnt do research right and a 5 amp fuse was WAY too small.
I reconfigured the cable shift as well. it works awesome. Smooth and precise.
Thats all for now, just wanted to update. Still contemplating the B20 vtec vs Turbo b16. but that is a different story.
This is going to be somewhat an ad-hoc list. I am creating this for those of you who wish to do the swap and I want to let you know of the pitfalls I ran in to. First, There is more than one way to do this, my swap is by no means a “bible” to do yours, but guidlines.
The number 1 thing I screwed up on as well as would change if I did it again, Spend more time making sure the engine/trans is in the right spot. I am fine left to right. I probably could go an inch or two lower to see if I can make the shift rod that comes out of the trans more accessable. right now when all the way out, it is about 1/2 inch from the suspension. A bit tight IMO. Because I didnt, I cant say if moving it lower to clear would be too low for the oilpan, trans, or exhaust, but if I did it again, i would check that. The workst part. the shaft angles. I messed that one up a bit. it looked right with my mock up, but my mock up wasnt right or things moved when I put it all together. when sitting, my shafts do not run stright into the transmisison. the angle, according to the driveshaft shop that made the shafts, will be fine although not ideal.
The transmisison mount from most of my build up pics are not what I ended up with. It looks more like a straight piece going out. it now it held also by a tube going up and braces to front and rear. (will show pics when I get to it) This fixed an issue with the mount not holding to the frame of the fiat. it actually started tearing the metal. I totally forgot about the torque twist that is applied and only took the downward weight of the drive train into account.
Cooling system was a bitch. too many trials and too many errors. I will get around to redoing most of it in stainless rather than the stainless/rubber hose mess it is now. but generically here is what worked for me.
Additional Pieces.
Upper Coolant neck from Ktuned.
This allows for an easy fill spot. Maybe not needed, but helped.
inline coolant temperature sensor adapter. with Bleed valve (purchased seperate)
This will go in the hose going to radiator. you will put a Bleed valve in rather than a sensor. This will be used because the hose going to the radiator start lower comes up to clear the transmision then goes back down to head up to the radiator. this high spot WILL need to be bled.
Coolant purge tank with 1 barb in the bottom.
The routing.
For the main circuit
runs out from the head, to the inline bleed, back down to run to the radiator.
Radiator out goes back to engine. before it goes to the return near the thermostat, you need a tee with a small outlet to go to the bottom of the purge tank.
For the heater Circuit
Mine is just looped right now, no heater.
there is a debate online on if it can be blocked off. My reseach shows most of the blocked off ones are full race with no thermostat.
Possible issue when merging into fiat heater. Fiat runs an on/off type valve. Honda runs a bypass style valve. Will just shutting off the flow be an issue? see above reason about blocking it off. same applies. I am going to put in a remote heater baypassvalve (sold for semi trucks) so I can put the valve back in the engine bay yes electronically control the flow from the dashboard.
When running this, I stay at 178-182 degrees.
I also have been debating on if I should have put the ECU in the spare tire well. it is there now, and it nice and handy, but seeing where some K swap people have put theirs in the trunk so the harness is closer to what it would be in the stock honda (going towards the rear) it might have been cleaner.
With most B series transmissions being shifted by rod vs cable, I originally opted to extend the rod back. This works, but is VERY loose. I ended up making a bracket for the transmission input rod that allowed me to use a cable shifter. I used a porsche spyder shifter. it was the cheapest route. actually cheaper than a used honda cable shifter. If I did it again, I would go with midwestbayless K series cable shifter. it was made to drop into the X. I have to tear up the tunnel quite a bit to get the porsche shifter to fit. it is about 150 buck more than the used porsche, but it would have been better and easier. The adapter I made allowed one cable to push-pull, which the other controlled the rotation. Works Great as well as very tight.
Updating on where I am on the winter projects. Lets Start with the X 1/9. It has been sitting in its temporary home awaiting a new garage. We are converting our current garage to an “in-law suite” for Kendras disabled uncle. Once its completed and his house sells, the garage will be replaced with a more functional detached garage. Although there is a little room to work on it in the temp garage, it is freaking cold and no real room for the heater. the heater is kerosene so it kicks out humidity which I already have an issue with because of the tarp style roof (condensation is a bitch). I hope I dont have a ton of rust to clean up. I know I will have a little.
So the X. Where it sits right now is I had 2 issues. One is when it goes into vtec, it misses like crazy. Late fall I found there was a transistor that was broken. 2 of the legs werent even connected. I bought a new one and soldered it in. Insurance was already switched to storage so I really didnt think flying down the road to test vtec would be smart without insurance. Damn I am getting old, I actually cared about not wanting to get a ticket. the other issue I had was with idle coming off throttle. it hangs about 2200 RPM until I blip the throttle, then it settles. I went through a couple forums and all the suggestions didnt help (iacv, vacuum leak ect). Right now I am running on crome (yes, spelled without an “h”). a free software to tune the honda. Because of the transistor issue it got me thinking if something else could be wrong with the ECU. Well I guess it is time to get a new one. I figured as long as I am going that route, I might as well go with a different tuning setup. Crome isnt bad, but Neptune and Hondata have more to offer. After alot of research and deliberation, I chose Hondata. Why? the number 1 reason why is it hooks up to other industry digital dashboards if I choose to replace mine. Another, albeit minor, reason is it has more industry following. More shops will tune hondata than any other honda tuning hardware/software. Downside. it is more expensive as well as needing a module to connect to my RD-1 digital dash where the neptune was direct plug and play. yup another $$. I think it is a small price to make sure any issues are not ECU related as well as will last for future endeavors. Out of the box I wont see any real performance gains, but even in stock form, I should be able to tune another 10-15 HP from everything I have seen on Dyno vids. Now, if I decide to go with more displacement or turbo…. yeah there is a big boost in HP. Personally, my goal would be a modest 250 WHP. Along with this, hondata allows me to control the temp the cooling fan comes on. right now it is hardwired to a switch. Being mid engine, I had issues with the fan coming on way too hot. The thermoswitch is in the radiator, where the honda is in the engine. this will allow me to kick the fan on at engine temp 186. this is where I was hitting it manually. usually when I stopped at a light.
The Spider. This one also stalled with the lack of garage. I was hoping to get it to dales to work on (still might) but life got in the way and we have had fun doing other things like working on cars we NEED to work on. I still havent replaced the timing belt I need to do before I try to start the car. but it does spin by hand and has compression. I have the new belt and tension pulley ready to go. The rear panhard rod was dead. there are 2 types put on these cars. a straight one and one with a slight bend. the one on this car was the slight bend type so I bought a replacement. ISSUE. it needed the straight one. Still need to order it. The Steering idler also was broke and needs to be replaced. I did get a almost new top for it that I am waiting for spring to replace. hoping to do a video during a “garage day” with other Michiganders that have done this before. I havent bought the new seat upholstery yet as I am still thinking of what color. I am sure Kendra will have a say. it is originally black, but the top will now be tan so thinking I might want to switch paths and go tan. I know I am also in for a treat when it comes to rust. I already know I am going to have to fix a few spots on the bottom as well as one of the front frame rails needs a thick band aide.
On the Photography front. I got a new tripod. Figured my meijer special has done its time. In reality it was because I went to take a picture of the blood moon and the slight wind we had was too much and it wouldnt hold still. as I was looking at tripods, I started thinking about a gimble as I am getting more and more into wildlife. I found an inexpensive (Cheap) neewer brand. the reviews were pretty good with the exception of it is still as hell. sure enough, when I got it. it was crazy stiff. even with the lock bolt undone it would unscrew rather than spin. Quick google search and plenty of people fixed this issue by tearing it apart and re greasing it with wheel bearing lube. I went through the process and poof. smooth as silk. Great purchase. No big lens purchases this year. been pondering either a 70-200 or a 60-600. the 70-700 probably would be better as that fills a gap I am missing. I currently have 17-50 1.8, 85 1.4, 120-300 2.8. Sigma also makes 50-100 1.8 that might fit in nicely.
Well those are the projects for now. just a quick update before bed. I am also thinking of doing a video on where I am on the X as people have been asking for a video and more pics.
My personal thoughts on K series vs B series in a fiat X19.
Quick hit. K series is the best….. If you have the cash. B series is “good enough” if you are under a budget.
Stock Power
B series honda engine and trans can run you from $500 up to $4000+. The b20 is cheap. REAL cheap and only about 130 HP stock. you can run around 200hp stock by getting the b18c type R. The K series you will run 163hp to 221hp stock. a quick look at ebay puts these starting out about $3000. with the hight HP going 4-5000.
more power!
why write what has already bee written. http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/honda-b-vs-k-series-right-build/
Quick synopsis: Normally aspirated, the K kicks ass. Boosted, the B catches up and some say surpasses the K. If you want torque (any torque) the B series is not your friend. they are much higher revving engines that dont turn on any real power until upwards of 5k. Stock internals can easily hold 10k RPM, but you will need to get parts, and a tune to get power at that RPM, but it can hold it. Add a few more go fast goodies and it can hold it as a daily driver.
The Swap itself.
The K series is pretty straight forward. IF you buy midwest bayless Kit. There are a few cuts you have to make and they give you the templates to do so. you have to weld up a small box as well. It is a pretty painless affair. from the quick look at the kit you will still need to get the shafts and fuel pump. if you are carburated, you will have to figure out how to get fuel from the bottom of the tank as fuel injection pumps push, they dont pull well .
The B series, there is no “kit” for it as it really doesn’t need one. Basically, you need to make 2 cuts. one small one in the frame rail above the end of the trans. about 1.5 inch by 4 inches. (then boxed out to re-add strength) and one small cut in the drivers side strut tower to allow the honda engine mount to stick about 1 inch in. 2 mounts will have to be created to hold the honda mounts. one on the trans (passenger) side, and one one the engine (drivers) side. I used 3×3 steel square tube with sides cut to fix.
Another BIG issues I had was with shift linkage. people have used the rod linkage with god results. I did not have those good results. I converted mine to cable. I used a porsche shifter ($100) but since then, using the shifter in the K series from Midwest would have been much better and easier.
My personal total cost for the b16 swap itself, not including issues I had with the engine.
Engine/trans (in running car) 1700
custom shafts 800
shifter 100
shift cables 150
fuel pump 100
mounts 200
I chose the B because of the affordable nature as well as there wasnt a kit for the K series yet. I also love the high revving nature of the b16. reminds me of the Fiat engine. Some people say that with the engine on the drivers side upsets the balance. I dont think this is possible. for one big one. there ARE x19’s that have the driver sitting in front of the stock X19. they would be complaining if there were issues with weight.
all and all. if you can afford the K, DO IT. period. no debate. if you cant, than the B series might be for you
Its been awhile since I have updated since I have updated the world on My fiat X19. Although I currently dont have pictures, I will add them later.
here is a list of what has been done over this winter/spring:
Shift linkage converted from rod to cable
New floor pans
Cooling system fixed
New 15×8 wheels with tires have been fitted
Fender Flares have been added
New carpet has been added
New Digital Dashboard has been configured and fitted
new throttle cable path
oil pressure gauge
wide band O2 Guage
So here we go one at a time.
first, this got smartly moved from a shove it and get it done to adding yet another winter to it. It was a great move as I started to half ass things and there was quite a bit more I did over the winter I may never have done. So I was almost ready to drive the car last summer, I even insured it for more than storage. Well I have a slight issue. It was over heating (215 and climbing when I shut it down). Feeling the radiator, I could tell the coolant wasnt circulating through. this is when my friends said stop. move it to another winter project. so I did. this is what happened this winter.
Shift linkage converted to cable from rod. I was not happy with the sloppyness of the shift linkage. I tried to modify the rod to get it to feel better with no avail. I think the distance and the reversing of it just wasnt going to be tight enough. So I started out trying to think of how I could fix it. I know the People who are putting the K series in the X love the shifting of the cable shifter so I started to see if I could get a cable shifter for a B series. During that search, I found a great video on how people are using Subaru engines midship. Subbie transmissions are rod shifter transmissions. What they were doing is converting it to cable. Once I saw the video I was sold. basically. a cable shifter uses 2 cables. 1 for the front to back movement, 1 for left to right. how that converts to the rod it actually quite simple. picture a piece of metal connected to the rod shooting off 2 inches or so like a flag. the front to back cable attaches to it near the rod. now when the cable goes out, it pushed the rod out. when it is pulled, it pulls the rod back in. the rotation of the rod the subbie people did it with bell cranks, I followed a 914 conversion page ans ran the cable around. so when you move the shifter left, it pulls the cable, in turn the cable, with is connected to the flag pulls the flag causing the rod to rotate.
B16 rod transmission converted to Cable shift
What I used was a porsche boxster shifter. Funny, on ebau it was about $75 buck. the Honda cable shifter was about $200! Hindsight, about 2 weeks after I bought the porsche shifter and tore up my tunnel to install it, Midwest Bayless offered a cable shifter that bolts into the X for the K swap, but it would have worked in my case. Ugh. It shifts smooth as butter. I am going to redo the flag part as right now it hangs too low. But that is for another day.
Floor pans. yeah, I really didnt have floor pans. Dale and I “fixed” them before, well I did a quicky hack job so my feet werent hitting the ground. I bought a set on ebay (later found out they were located about an hour from me and I could have just picked them up) and welded them in. no big story, it was easy peasy.
Floor pans and view of shifter guts
Back to fixing the cooling issues. new thermostat, added a secondary filler neck and vent to help get the air out, found out I have the hoses backward, replaced the tubes under the car, new aluminum radiator, new head gasket, new water pump. Ugh. and it still was over heating. I hit up honda-tech.com and they had 2 suggestions. 1. swap the heater return and the bypass return. this way the bypass return hits the thermostat more direct, rather than the heater return. 2. use a Honda genuine thermostat. Well, between the 2 things, it works!!! I still have to hook up the cooling fans, but at least now the radiator gets hot so I know I have circulation. the final cooling diagram:
Deleted diagram. It was wrong. I finally got is working correctly and will add a diagram when I have time.
Generically. main circuit. out of head to new filler neck, to top of radiator, out of bottom of radiator, back towards engine, tee to expansion tank bottom only inlet, bleed valve before thermostat highest spot, then to thermostat then h2o pump. Heater Circuit, out from head backnto return line second one from thermostat. I bypassed the heater for now. Bypass, from head to return line closest to thermostat.
New Wheels and tires. 13 inch tires are getting harder and harder to find, let alone performance ones. So I decided to upgrade to 15’s. Vicks auto had a set of 15×8 with 0 offset. I liked the look so I picked them up. now for the issues. 15×8 with 0 offset will not fit with stock struts. I really didnt want to get coilovers (yet) so I opted for a 1/2 spacer front and rear with the appropriate hub centric conversion built in. now the wheels fit without hitting it was time for tires. the right size to fit under the fender easily would be 195/45r15. well, that is a bit of a stretch on 8 inch. 2 others have 205/50 front and 225/45 rear. both have flares. my thought was I wondered if 225/45 will fit up front. I bought 2, figuring if they didnt fit up front, I would buy 205’s for the front and put these in the rear. If they did fit, then I would buy 245/40r15 for the rear and keep the 225’s up front. after ALOT of massaging/trimming of the fender, the 225’s fit! So I ordered the 245’s for the rear. I also got myself ready knowing I needed flares.
stock vs new rear…… (width: 6.5 inch to 9.6 inch…)
Now for the flares. there are a few styles available for the X19. Baylees, Faza, and PBS. there are also 2 popular full fender kits, Dallara and Boig. I like the full kits, but they are 3-4 times the cost and work to get installed. I decided on Brayden’s choice from midwest. Brayden mixed Faza Front with PBS rear. took a trip to pick them up. (love midwest bayless) when I went to put the fronts on, we had an issue. the 225’s rubbed on the front and rear when I turned. After some thinking, I decided that I would just stretch the, a little by cutting them at the top, spreading them about 2″ then refberglassing them together. Poof, it worked and the wheels can turn. I think if I didnt go with the spacers, it might have had the turning radius fine for the flares. I also molded them in (real rough) to the airdam as the airdam I have isnt the one that is supposed to be with the flares.
the Dashboard. my original idea was to modify the stock dash to maintain the look of the original, just having new gauges that would be able to read the honda info. here is what I found. tach would work with a few mods, h2o gauge would work, amp would work. so far so good. Speedo would be a GPS unit, oil idiot light worked. I really wanted more info than that. so I picked up a RD-1 digital dash. fully customizable and works with my ECU. now I have almost every reading I want. bought a used instrument panel so I didnt have to kill mine, and made the digital dash fit in it. I also added a few idiot lights I would need. Brights indicator, Turn signal indicator, oil light, amp light. well I got the turn signal and the brights indicator working. the oil and the amp, not so much. oh well. I wanted a separate oil pressure gauge anyway. I also picked up a wideband O2 gauge that will help when I go to tune it.
lastly for this update. the throttle cable. Last summer I actually drove it with a jenky throttle set up. stock fiat to the engine compartment, bastardized connection to the honda throttle cable. This would not do. I bought a 110″ dune buggy cable, some stainless (ok, it turned out not to be stainless, not happy here) tubing. now I have a single cable from the pedal to the throttle body. I use the tube to direct it around the engine up to the manifold where it can be adjusted.
